tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post1063708853510580721..comments2024-03-18T18:05:25.821-07:00Comments on VISIONS OF THE NORTH: Harry Peglar and his papersRussell Potterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11023313195827310776noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-49669069597201377082021-01-31T16:00:19.029-08:002021-01-31T16:00:19.029-08:00A further thought on this; if this section contain...A further thought on this; if this section contains Peglar's reflections on Franklin's funeral (either his own thoughts, or quoting from words spoken at the service), does this argue for a burial at sea (through a hole blasted in the ice) rather than on land? It is of course possible that Peglar was part of a detatchment who transported Franklin's body to the land and so heard the funeral service there, however it is statistically less likely than if he heard a service performed before the entireity of both crews in the vincinity of the ships.<br /><br />Apologies for coming to this discussion late, however only in the last twelve months that have I have become intrigued by the expedition and found this superb blog. Mark Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05793450462804445533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-61860073934988381482021-01-16T12:12:06.626-08:002021-01-16T12:12:06.626-08:00I (belatedly) agree with Russ Calvert. In British ...I (belatedly) agree with Russ Calvert. In British working class vernacular 'dyer' is sometimes used as a shorthand for 'the person who died'. The use is rather antiquted nowadays however it was usd by my grandparents' generation (born 1920s) and most likely before.Mark Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05793450462804445533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-18094930753023657112020-02-20T07:21:50.933-08:002020-02-20T07:21:50.933-08:00(that said, the more who are working on them, the ...(that said, the more who are working on them, the better the chance of improving our understanding!) Best of luck with your work!Russell Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11023313195827310776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-51594572178683033602020-02-20T07:19:44.584-08:002020-02-20T07:19:44.584-08:00If by "fully read" you mean that the maj...If by "fully read" you mean that the majority of the letters are readable, perhaps so. But there are enough gaps, obscured letters, and ambiguous words (with different possible readings forwards and backwards) that the papers remain quite difficult to interpret.Russell Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11023313195827310776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-17814044597215959532019-08-31T08:37:20.246-07:002019-08-31T08:37:20.246-07:00Harry is common nickname for people with the given...Harry is common nickname for people with the given name Henry. See Prince Harry etc.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01979173239780526768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-27557700234453361162018-05-22T12:25:03.864-07:002018-05-22T12:25:03.864-07:00Is there a newer transcript of the Peglar Papers t...Is there a newer transcript of the Peglar Papers than that from the year 2000 (on ric.edu)? Because there seem to be a couple of words I can make out that aren't in the transcript..... go figure, the only two or three words I actually can read, and can't place them anywhere inside the full text! :)<br /><br /><br />Also, I'm confused as to his first name. Was Harry the nickname? Because the crew list I can see on http://collections.rmg.co.uk/archive clearly states him as Henry? <br /><br />Thank you so much. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17235103759691779462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-20995462761962126262018-05-05T02:51:31.421-07:002018-05-05T02:51:31.421-07:00Author Gillian Hutchinson has replied (very prompt...Author Gillian Hutchinson has replied (very promptly) to my letter asking about crew signatures. She has sent 4 A4 photocopies that assemble to make an A2 copy of 2 adjacent pages of the Allotment list. She hasn't written anything herself, no covering note, but the envelope had unsealed so I hope nothing fell out.<br /> The copies show pages 321/22 of the list, which covers 10 of Erebus's crew. There is a specific column in the Allotment list for "Man's signature or mark" and this column has 7 signatures, 2 Xs, and a "JA X" from James W. Brown. The styles of the Xs are different, they look like they're from different hands. The 7 signatures are definitely from different hands and differ from the clerk's style of writing that wrote the name of the Man in the "Men's names" column.<br />If a crewman made an allotment, then there's a record of their signature or mark in these lists.<br /> I am writing back to see if I can get copies of the complete Allotment list of both crews,and a chance to see if Gibson made an allotment and therefore left a signature. <br /> We should now assume that Hutchinson's claim that Armitage signed X in 1845 is true, as she has the lists. She gives their archive code as "ADM 27/90 Pages 316-325". Armitage is very unlikely to be the author of any of the Peglar papers. Bamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13229960001466678931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-66346911007125746532018-05-03T15:29:21.653-07:002018-05-03T15:29:21.653-07:00An excellent question. There's some possibiity...An excellent question. There's some possibiity that his may have been the skeleton retrieved by the 1RCR exercise "Northern Quest" in 1973 -- see this <a href="http://visionsnorth.blogspot.com/2017/10/franklin-searchers-of-month-operation.html" rel="nofollow">older post</a> on my blog, but the location is not quite the same. It's equally possible that the skeleton still remains, or has been washed away by the tide.Russell Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11023313195827310776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-75169631822197638132018-05-03T11:02:23.574-07:002018-05-03T11:02:23.574-07:00Sad to think of this poor soul; at the end of his ...Sad to think of this poor soul; at the end of his strength & hopelessly far from home...<br /><br />Has his skeleton been re-discovered since 1859?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15574355011927064982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-64922308645128042912018-05-02T00:29:47.569-07:002018-05-02T00:29:47.569-07:00Thank-you for pointing me to the NMM images. I lo...Thank-you for pointing me to the NMM images. I located the page starting with ‘O death where is thy sting’ and spent several hours experimenting with image processing software in an attempt to make it more readable, but without a great deal of success. The only thing I can add to your analysis is that looking at the line spacing, the ‘Nelson took’ (or whatever it is) looks as though it was added after the following line, probably as a correction or insertion of accidentally omitted words. The squiggle between ‘Dyer’ and ‘was/saw’ also looks rather like an insertion arrow. If so, that would give us ‘For who has any douat how the Dyer Nelson took was/saw and whare Traffalegar’. It still doesn't make a great deal of sense!<br />Russ Calverthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010221213783078632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-8140383465277184052018-05-01T14:38:52.835-07:002018-05-01T14:38:52.835-07:00Gillian is retired -- don't believe she uses e...Gillian is retired -- don't believe she uses e-mail. Let me know if you don't hear back and I'll write to my contact there.Russell Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11023313195827310776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-31394695628698813042018-05-01T13:22:39.628-07:002018-05-01T13:22:39.628-07:00Gillian Hutchinson, the book's author, used to...Gillian Hutchinson, the book's author, used to be the Maps curator at Greenwich National Maritime Museum, so she's in the right place to have good access to the right archives.<br />I couldn't find an email contact for her online, so I'm posting a physical letter (remember them? ) and emailing the museum hoping it can reach her.<br />If she's right, there are 1845 examples of the crews handwriting available. Bamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13229960001466678931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-62317456446421454002018-05-01T12:18:39.613-07:002018-05-01T12:18:39.613-07:00It must be the allotment lists. I'll have to c...It must be the allotment lists. I'll have to check for these the next time I'm at Kew.Russell Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11023313195827310776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-12776151873074190532018-05-01T12:07:59.685-07:002018-05-01T12:07:59.685-07:00Ah ha, so maybe the book "Sir John Franklins ...Ah ha, so maybe the book "Sir John Franklins Erebus and Terror Expedition" is mistaken? The transcribed crew list in this book lists 5 of Terror's crew as signing "X", and 9 of Erebus's crew. Plus Erebus's caulker James W. Brown signed "JA X". I wonder where the author Gillian Hutchinson got this info? It seems an odd thing to make up? And the JA X detail suggests she saw an original somewhere. <br />In fairness, the crew lists and Xs in her book say they're compiled from the Muster tables AND the Allotment lists, so maybe that's where.<br />Bamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13229960001466678931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-31886112297858751362018-05-01T11:34:25.390-07:002018-05-01T11:34:25.390-07:00I have scans of the muster rolls. Although the sen...I have scans of the muster rolls. Although the senior officers did sign their names, the rest of the crew did not -- all their entries are in the same hand, presumably that of Mr. Helpman, the clerk-in-charge.Russell Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11023313195827310776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-4582431796591492592018-05-01T11:33:11.301-07:002018-05-01T11:33:11.301-07:00You can get pretty good images at the NMM and zoom...You can get pretty good images at the <a href="http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/2113.html" rel="nofollow">NMM</a> and zoom in on them. I have high-resolution ones, and have tried all sorts of image processing without much improvement. Multi-spectral imaging would be the best option going forward, but this will depend on the NMM's being willing to subject the original to new scans.Russell Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11023313195827310776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-11578467835911385222018-05-01T10:29:02.923-07:002018-05-01T10:29:02.923-07:00There are (at least) 2 different writers of the te...There are (at least) 2 different writers of the texts in the Peglar papers; "the narrative of Peglar's sea service, though unsigned, was probably written by Peglar; the handwriting is clear, though the spelling is poor." The other papers are from a different hand, and sometimes spelt backwards.<br /> Glenn M. Stein makes an excellent case for the corpse being that of Gibson. The presence of a large clothes brush (almost floor scrubbing brush size) with the skeleton would not likely be normal kit for a gun room steward, but could be expected kit for an officers' steward like Gibson. But could Gibson be the 2nd author? <br /> Some of the writings in the different hand made reference to a visit to Cumanar in Venezuela, which we know was only visited by Peglar and Armitage, not by Gibson. Stein points out that Armitage signed his marriage certificate in 1826 with an "X", but was he still illiterate 20 years later? The book "Sir John Franklins Erebus and Terror Expedition" states on page76 that Armitage signed the 1845 Terror muster rolls with an X (tho the book doesnt show the rolls). So i presume him illiterate, or largely so; certainly not likely to be able to perform the mental gymnastics required to write backwards fluently.<br /> <br />Gibson apparently signed the muster with his name, not an X. Can anyone check his writing on the muster roll? Can someone also check those rolls to see if anyone in the crews signed their name backwards? chuckle..Bamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13229960001466678931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-17639732309029797322018-04-30T14:22:52.550-07:002018-04-30T14:22:52.550-07:00I was fascinated by your Trafalgar Chronicle artic...I was fascinated by your Trafalgar Chronicle article, and would definitely recommend it to anybody with an interest in the Peglar Papers (and an hour or two to spare).<br /><br />When I read the line “The Dyer was and whare Traffalegar”, my instant interpretation of the “The Dyer” was “He who has died”, so I was rather surprise to see you then speculating that Dyer might be a surname. Have you considered the possibility that “The Dyer” was simply a strange way of writing “He who has died”?<br /><br />Are there any high quality images of the Peglar Papers available on the internet? I'd be interested in experimenting with graphics software in an attempt to make the images more readable, although I imagine others have already done something similar without much success.<br />Russ Calverthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07010221213783078632noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-30872504333367360492018-04-28T14:19:34.861-07:002018-04-28T14:19:34.861-07:00We don't have any other materials from the exp...We don't have any other materials from the expedition-- yet! -- what that article refers to as the "journal" of Commander Fitzjames was sent home in a series of letters to his family, the last of which was posted from Greenland in the summer of 1845 before the ships sailed into Lancaster Sound, the first stage of their journey.Russell Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11023313195827310776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-36604210020660328562018-04-28T14:03:37.813-07:002018-04-28T14:03:37.813-07:00If this articles is correct there are also fragmen...If this articles is correct there are also fragments of other journals so hopefully it will be followed by other discoveries.<br /><br />https://www.newscientist.com/article/2141477-the-great-polar-mystery-closing-in-on-the-truth/<br /><br />I feel so spoiled by the discovery I'm sure it will take many months and years of careful work to find game-changing artifacts.Dominikhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11806947826985437578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-77329397886995969202018-04-28T05:15:38.157-07:002018-04-28T05:15:38.157-07:00Alas, nothing so dramatic! The red stuff is sealin...Alas, nothing so dramatic! The red stuff is sealing wax; you can also see bits of it on the individual pages of the papers. Most were folded and sealed as though to be mailed as letters -- a few even have addresses -- for economy, people back then used the folded letter as its own "self envelope." Details are in my article linked above.Russell Potterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11023313195827310776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3873756940955163469.post-55112006818097936122018-04-27T21:16:14.101-07:002018-04-27T21:16:14.101-07:00In the photo of the wallet, there is a red spot. B...In the photo of the wallet, there is a red spot. Blood ? From scurvy ? From bleeding hands that had put the wallet in a pocket?<br /><br />Twenty lashes! Lucky he even survived that.<br /><br /><br /><br />Soloman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06972686779984782545noreply@blogger.com